Nomination regulation: http://waterski.org.hk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Recruitment-for-the-Executive-Committee-Aug-2022.pdf
Nomination Form: http://waterski.org.hk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Nomination-form-for-Aug-2022Final.pdf
Candidate List
A. Executive Committee – Wakesurf Chairman
A1. WONG Sai Hong William (Nominated by TAM Yee Ting Jan, Seconded by TO Sarah Wing Jong)
B. Executive Committee
*Sort by last name
B1. CHENG Chun Hin (Nominated by GUO Huanshu, Seconded by TSANG Chi Long) *Withdraw the election on 12/9/2022
B2. CHONG, David Siu Fung (Nominated by Sarah Ching Hing LAI, Seconded by NG Hiu Ying Angel)
B3. NG Hiu Ying Angel (Nominated by YEUNG Wing Hong, Seconded by WONG Sai Hong William) *Withdraw the election on 13/9/2022
B4. TAM Yee Ting Jan (Nominated by CHAN Man Yee Fiona, Seconded by LEE Hoi Lun Helen)
Full details with CV and Goals: http://waterski.org.hk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Recruitment-for-the-Executive-Committee-nomination-list-1.pdf
Q&A section (Until 5pm, 14/9):
All members can submit their questions to the candidate(s) by using the message box function at the bottom of this web page. All Candidate(s) can then reply below to the questions that are being asked.
Please use the below Format:
To: Candidate name/names
From: HKWSA paid member Full name
Content/Question: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
** Any non-related, inappropriate, canvassing comments will be deleted.
Voting:
An online voting form will be sent to all HKWSA members by email on 15/9/2022 (before 9am), the voting deadline is HKT 5pm, 15/9/2022.
If you cannot receive it, please contact us by whatsapp 56466174.
All members should fill in their full name, phone number, email address, and First 5 AlphaNumeric of HKID number for verifying your memberships. All details must be the same as your memberships registration. If the information is incorrect, your voting will be regarded as a void vote.
Result:
HKWSA received a total of 259 votes, of which 35 votes were invalid due to incorrect information, therefore the number of valid votes was 224.
A. Do you agree that William WONG will be the current-term Executive Committee Member as well as Wakesurf Committee Chairman?
168 votes Agree
56 votes Disagree
B. Which of the following would you choose to be a member of the Executive Committee of HKWSA?
137 votes CHONG, David Siu Fung
87 votes TAM Yee Ting Jan
Congratulations to the two elected members!
HKWSA will contact the elected members as soon as possible, and we will formally invite William WONG and David CHONG to join the Executive Committee.
If you have any questions, please contact our staff.
All members can submit their questions to the candidate(s) by using the message box function at the bottom of this web page. All Candidate(s) can then reply below to the questions that are being asked.
Please use the below Format:
To: Candidate name/names
From: HKWSA paid member Full name
Content/Question: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
** Any non-related, inappropriate, canvassing comments will be deleted.
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
Please advise the rational that u nominated a candidate to this election. How u may maintain the code of conduct for committees and athletics after you may be elected? These questions primarily shall be sent to HKWSA but only questions to candidates are open now!
Hi Bibi, thanks for your questions.
“Please advise the rational that u nominated a candidate to this election.”
William: I am an advocate of diversity. Having reviewed the current composition of the Ex-co board it’s noted that the majority of the current members are primarily doing 1 watersports i.e. wakeboarding. Wakesurfing’s been a growing sport in recent years and I think for this election it’s a must for us to backfill the EC vacancy with a wakesurfer.
Personally, I am supportive to the young bloods who need any support to be nominated (and very frankly, given all the things that have happened, there aren’t many potentially suitable people out there who still have the courage to join, esp. at this stage when there are numerous wakesurf issues to be addressed). Harry has got enough nominations and so I helped Angel out as an eligible member.
Harry and Angel are both good riders and collectively they represent the voices of skim riders on the island side (which is much needed) . They’re both young which is never a disadvantage at all, being young means there’s positive energy that you could change things & you tend to be more receptive to feedbacks / comments. These are much-needed qualities for the current HWKSA setting in my view.
“How u may maintain the code of conduct for committees and athletics after you may be elected?”
William: I believe there is already well established code of conduct for members / athletes, this is the first thing being having well set rules as baseline. In terms of maintenance / assurance, I think of this being a collective & open regular review or decision making for all the 12 ex-co.
All in all, as member / athlete, you ought to adhere to the set rules and they need to be made aware of that. As a (potential) reinforcer, I would ensure the awareness to be in place, and more importantly, I would build a culture to praise / appreciate someone who’s willing to correct any wrongdoings. After all we are all human and it’s part of the growth process to be able to correct yourself and we should be fully supportive.
To: TAM Yee Ting Jan
From: LAI Sarah Ching Hing
Content/Question:
1) Can you please tell us your goals and plans for wakesurf development?
Thank you.
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Cooby Chan
Content/Question:
1)一個義務性的委員會,如何鼓勵準委員 防止與自身工作金錢相比?
2)請問準委員有沒有對滑水總會的commitment年期?
3)價值觀、體育精神、公正公義 ,請問你對以上3項的優先排序?
4)對於之前的各人的提問及批評,當你當選入了委員會後,你的處理方法是什麼?你會對滑水總會進行什麼改革?
A)Wakeboard, wakesurf, waterski香港隊的入選制度,你有什麼建議?請問 以上3項的 入選制度,作為同屬一個滑水總會下的運動員應否統一? 如果不統一的話,你的理據是什麼?
B)滑水會應否 迎合另一個WAKESURF ASSOCIATION來革?如是的話,理據是什麼? 2者背景/理念是否有冲突?
5)請問你認為你擔當CHAIRMAN後應該可以於什麼時效作出改善?可否列出一個 3年的TIMELINE?
6)滑水總會由前軰所有努力得來的前因,若你當選後,如何保證所有PARTY都得到共識及尊重?希望你可以認真回答,日後如有任何爭議,各委員可以拎你的參選回覆作參考,俾各委員及公眾做一個指標/參考。
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From Chow Ka Yan
Content/ Question:
我見你建議每個比賽嘅第一名都可以由委員有discretion決定是否by luck/ real performance能唔能入香港隊。如果係咁,會唔會開放左個渠道係由委員主觀決定邊啲人值得入邊啲人唔得,會唔會導致考慮左是此比賽以外嘅因素變得主觀?因為委員有酌情權決定招攬表現出色嘅運動員入隊亦都係現有制度其中一個俾人批評很多嘅地方。就住香港隊嘅改革制度,之後會唔會考慮設立公眾諮詢平台?
To: All candidates
From Chow Ka Yan
Content/ Question:
請問各候選人認為作為代表香港隊嘅運動員,除咗本身技術水平之外,體育精神、個人操行、對其他運動員嘅尊重是否同為重要?應唔應該亦是考慮因素之一?
多謝Sarah提問~
一直以嚟本人為Wakesurf依個運動出心出力, 由香港未有太多人認識Wakesurf,已經開始幫手推廣依項運動,由2017年香港第一個Wakesurf比賽直至到今年,我有份參與其中,親身見証著好大嘅轉變。
我好清楚明白HKWSA所有制度係要根據各政府部門所制定嘅指引去做,如果我當選委員,會在所以指引底下配合主席及其他委員理性討論、分析、策劃所有事項。
包括:
1. 推動更多小朋友、年青人認識Wakeboard/Wakesurf
2. 在資源有限及政府部門各制度底下,協助委員會舉辦所有活動及賽事
3. 配合改善原有制度,例如港隊人選
我好清楚明白有好多需要改善嘅地方,但此終制度唔係一時三刻就可以改變,疫情開始就停咗兩年正式嘅比賽,雖然我唔係玩得最叻,但我有努力過,身為Wakesurfer/港隊成員希望其他Wakesurfer可以注意言行,尊重下別人(包括我),已唔係為反而反,我都知道有好多Wakesurfer都參與過不是HKWSA所舉辦,未有正式向政府部門申報嘅比賽,大家都係為咗依個sport付出過,希望大家可以尊重、冷靜、理性!
多謝Chow嘅提問~
如果我當選委員,我必會多方面了解所有運動員,作為一位可以代表香港嘅運動員從觀看技術方面之外,另外就是言行舉止,包括網上言論、比賽時態度、尊重其他運動員或委員會與否,都必須是考慮因素。
補充一句,運動員也有自己私人時間,私人時間所做嘅言行言論而不涉及運動與其他運動員,是可以理解的
Thanks Cooby for the questions. Since I am using my laptop and it does not have voice input, I am using English to reply, hope you won’t mind.
1)一個義務性的委員會,如何鼓勵準委員 防止與自身工作金錢相比?
William: I suppose this question is about potential conflicts of interest and how I encourage my team to balance off / handle conflicts of interest well.
Potential conflicts are everywhere and it comes down to self-awareness to start with followed by declaring it.
As a 3rd party, the best I could do is to remind the committees to pay attention to any potential conflicts and to “lobby” it ASAP and when in doubt. And to start with I would declare my potential conflicts (if any) to be a role model.
And then collectively, the committee members have the decision to exclude a particular member in any decision making that the committee group (not 1 person’s view) believes that’s sensitive.
For me as a candidate to be elected, I also encourage my actions to be monitored by primarily the committee members and by the public, it’s a team sport but not 1 individual can create magic.
2)請問準委員有沒有對滑水總會的commitment年期?
William: I asked HKWSA the same question i.e. how long am I signing this up for, to me, things change over time no one can predict the longer future. Yet, The commitment from me will last for the 15 months (a cycle long in between AGMs) / at least until the next AGM when there’s re-election of the committee board as I would like to focus on what I can achieve within the promised duration specified which is more “real” over selling dreams.
If I am not elected in the next AGM, I will then fulfil my commitment as member of HKWSA / someone in the wakesurf community) to continue to help.
I am supportive of having more different persons to take turn to be ex-co and hence there’s no sense of entitlement for any current board members & it’s how we keep injecting new up-to-date-perspectives to any community.
3)價值觀、體育精神、公正公義 ,請問你對以上3項的優先排序?
William: I can’t prioritise among these as they are equally important to me. More like if you could bring me a scenario question with all 3 above in conflict I am happy to share my perspective. Sorry that I DID NOT manage to answer this given in any scenario if I could preserve all 3 without trade-offs, I would have them all prioritised.
4)對於之前的各人的提問及批評,當你當選入了委員會後,你的處理方法是什麼?你會對滑水總會進行什麼改革?
William: My perspective of this is there’s one solution to the problem – to maintain an open culture and be receptive to feedbacks and always improve together as a team (which contains also the wider non-ex-co watersport players out there in HK).
My 1st mission is to address the issue of public having perception that the best people aren’t representing HK in watersport. I will ensure the team are paying 100% attention to address this in no time. As for the mission of being wakesurf chairman, I look to create a culture of openness to ideas & criticisms and the boldness to change conventional things, I believe by cultivating this mindset / practice we as a whole team shall fix all the issues / make the association thrives.
Planting a proper (work) culture in the association and in the bigger watersport community in my mind is key in paving the way towards bullet-proof in long run.
A)Wakeboard, wakesurf, waterski香港隊的入選制度,你有什麼建議?請問 以上3項的 入選制度,作為同屬一個滑水總會下的運動員應否統一? 如果不統一的話,你的理據是什麼?
William: Operationally it’s best that we execute 1 single set of criteria administrative wise. Yet, in my view the mentioned 3 sports have their own characteristics and if needed be, the criteria can be totally independent of each other and can be separate. We the association should be the enabler of the sport we don’t own the sport like a boss.
My rationale is at the bare minimum, we should create / reinforce a system which is accepted by the players who’re in it. (we could run forums / use any means to gather their views). If this is not accepted by the players in the field we are pushing talents away, which ultimately violates the objective of putting together any HK Teams.
B)滑水會應否 迎合另一個WAKESURF ASSOCIATION來革?如是的話,理據是什麼? 2者背景/理念是否有冲突?
William: The best is we bear the ultimate ownership of promoting the sport and just need to equip ourselves with the relevant industry knowledge
and we remain to be open to discuss the stuffs other association do. Meanwhile, benchmarking how others are doing similar things is always beneficial in terms of getting references.
5)請問你認為你擔當CHAIRMAN後應該可以於什麼時效作出改善?可否列出一個 3年的TIMELINE?
William: We need to talk WHAT to improve as your question did not specify. I’ve shared what I would like to improve 1st thing when answering Q4 but it’s needed to consult other ex-co in this.
I am incapable of putting a 3-year timeline as it’s too long and that reminds me of someone’ saying 運動員生涯好短 and this is extra right for HK players, resources wise / lifestyle wise. Rather, I would like to set the goal / timeline to be something like – we would ensure the selection system will improve before the next HK wakesurf competition.
6)滑水總會由前軰所有努力得來的前因,若你當選後,如何保證所有PARTY都得到共識及尊重?希望你可以認真回答,日後如有任何爭議,各委員可以拎你的參選回覆作參考,俾各委員及公眾做一個指標/參考。
William: I would answer in this way and it goes back to what motivates me to join the ex-co as wakesurf chairman – I pledge to ensure all actions I do will be for the benefit of the wider watersport landscape as 1st priority. HKWSA is a product / result of the thriving HK watersport and I believe the association will thrive also when the watersport itself actually thrives.
And I shall do this fairly, respectfully and objectively (meaning whatever decision made is a team decision but not any individual’s).
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Cooby Chan
Content/Question:
謝謝你的回覆,
你所提到「My perspective of this is there’s one solution to the problem – to maintain an open culture and be receptive to feedbacks and always improve together as a team (which contains also the wider non-ex-co watersport players out there in HK).」
「As for the mission of being wakesurf chairman, I look to create a culture of openness to ideas & criticisms and the boldness to change conventional thing」
請問你有無具體而實際方案或改善措施,如何實踐?以什麼方法?
我集合了幾位滑水運動員的問題,可以的話方便以中文回答以免我傳譯錯誤,謝謝
Thanks Chow.
“我見你建議每個比賽嘅第一名都可以由委員有discretion決定是否by luck/ real performance能唔能入香港隊。如果係咁,會唔會開放左個渠道係由委員主觀決定邊啲人值得入邊啲人唔得,會唔會導致考慮左是此比賽以外嘅因素變得主觀?因為委員有酌情權決定招攬表現出色嘅運動員入隊亦都係現有制度其中一個俾人批評很多嘅地方。就住香港隊嘅改革制度,之後會唔會考慮設立公眾諮詢平台?”
William:
係會開放左決定權喺委員會度。我咁樣諗嘅,我提議第一名先可以有discretion嘅原因就係想保持一定嘅公平性同客觀性。
比賽成績相信係客觀,之所以提議呢一個(可能係主觀)嘅做法就係希望特別情況特別去處理。大家如果諗深一層,究竟有幾多個人比賽會贏到第一名但係又唔會夠分入港隊呢?我相信原因好簡單:一係佢就係後起之秀;一係就係其他嘅種子成員表現得唔好失準或者佢超水準發揮。
我想講我提出嘅制度同現有嘅酌情權係有唔同:不同在於你係需要有一個客觀同埋總會認可嘅比賽表現為基本??
我提出呢個提議希望大家一齊brainstorm出一個有彈性而又維持一定客觀度嘅選拔方法,任何改變喺決定程度一定會有公眾諮詢,呢一樣嘢我嘅角度係基本。
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
Now is 4pm on 6 Sep, why only some of the candidates are replying questions/comments while some are missing? Shall we use IG instead as a media for communication in future so that to cope with the new ages? How u may gather the new ages to reply formal stuff if ur team may be elected? How or what you think is better communication channel for HKWSA? These are also wanna ask HKWSA but not available this time. Thanks!
謝謝Chow Ka Yan 的提問。
HKWSA 的目標是選出最優秀的運動員代表協會和香港。
良好的品行和良好的體育精神與運動員的技能水平同樣重要。因為他們是代表香港的面孔。為防止不良行為和不佳的體育精神,HKWSA 應視乎事情的嚴重程度需要發出警告、罰款甚至禁止運動員在一段時間內參賽。
Thank you Chow Ka Yan for your question.
HKWSA’s goal is to select the best available athletes to represent the association and Hong Kong.
Good conduct and good sportsmanship is as important as the skill level of an athlete. Since they will be the faces representing Hong Kong. To prevent poor conduct and behaviour, the HKWSA should issue, warnings, fines or even banning the athletes from competing for a period of time, depending on the seriousness of the matter.
David & William
Dear David & William,
Based on your reply, you mentioned HKWSA should issue, warnings, fines or even banning the athletes from competing for a period of time,
Then we just have a real case, just like last competition, some of the athletes accuse Hong Kong Water Sports Association as Hong Kong “WORST” Sports Association if you are one of the committee, will you suggest to issue, warnings, fines or even banning the athletes? What if the athlete blames HKWSA again? How will you handle it? Please advise. Thanks.
Hi Victor,
As HKWSA committees I would reach out to clarify the grounds which they based on to conclude such accusations and issue warnings, followed by potentially banning the athletics under extreme repeated cases, under the situation, when the grounds are all pre-matured conclusions.
Actually I’ve also received comment from this board which I think it’s a pre-matured conclusion or pre-matured accusations like – “看來未來於你帶領下都不過如此。I’ve then followed this up with a request to have a personal direction conservation with the the commenter to understand positively what’s being misunderstood and extra improvements out of it.
I think this kind of accusation occurs from time to time, we should 1. first try out best to classify if the accusation is a valid one i.e. there’s chance that their blames have a valid ground; 2. being the HKWSA we should focus on the subject matter but not being personal; 3. try extra the improvement ideas out of it and reflect on improvements; 4. the last is to execute improvements.
(Of course, if the accusation is INVALID, we then should try the best to product the name / reputation of the association by all PR means & administrative steps (including warnings / banning and even take on lawful actions)
Sorry again the above have typos again – we then should try the best to PROTECT the name not PRODUCT, typed this in the middle of work really quickly.
To: William
From: Chow
Content/ question:
視乎改革後睇幾多個比賽同埋各比賽佔比 因為如果睇幾個比賽或者佔比唔同「有幾多個人比賽會贏到第一名但係又唔會夠分入港隊呢?」呢個情況都真係會發生 又或者如果你覺得呢個情況唔會點發生 咁點解唔索性第一名就一定入得港隊 以盡量減少需要主觀決定嘅情況?
我唸問題重點係委員可以基於乜準則去衡量某組別嘅冠軍係by luck但某組別嘅冠軍係by real performance ?係咪會睇埋比賽以外平時滑水嘅表現 ?如果係咁係咪會造成對其他選手包括第二第三名唔公平?
唔使bilingual 回覆啦 純粹覺得呢一點可以再斟酌下
In kind reply to Cooby who helped to consolidated the questions from multiple persons ¨̮
你所提到「My perspective of this is there’s one solution to the problem – to maintain an open culture and be receptive to feedbacks and always improve together as a team (which contains also the wider non-ex-co watersport players out there in HK).」
「As for the mission of being wakesurf chairman, I look to create a culture of openness to ideas & criticisms and the boldness to change conventional thing」
請問你有無具體而實際方案或改善措施,如何實踐?以什麼方法?
William:
其實我都諗咗一陣究竟改變culture可唔可以用一啲實際嘅方案呢。我諗係:以身作則。拎個心出嚟做去聆聽意見就好似而家我用心答你哋嘅問題一樣。❤️
方法:以身作則 top down influencing as chairman
實際方案:重要嘅事盡快follow up; no dictatorship; celebrate success while evaluate on improvement areas / feedbacks practiced; to realize your promise
Frequency: on a daily basis
其實我都想入到去之後問吓大家嘅意見應該點樣做,但係我嘅方法就係我覺得近朱者赤,希望我比到大家嘅形象係一個好正面唔會推卸責任同埋係想件事好嘅人,而我相信圍繞着我做嘢嘅人都會比我改變到,潛移默化左??
謝謝你的回覆,
其實我對你嘅回覆好失望。你只係用語言藝術來帶大眾遊花園,沒有將實際的例子/ 意見提出及回答,看來未來於你帶領下都不過如此。
1. 你於另一回覆所提的「你圈子的opinion leader」,請問是誰?
2. 「你圈子的opinion leader」係由邊一位選出來?
3. 請問你以什麼準則或者條件才可以成為「你圈子的opinion leader」?
4. 你以什麼準則覺得「你圈子的opinion leader」可以代表我?代表其他人?是否經過公眾咨詢? 麻煩你實質有效地回答。我不需要空泛而無實質的回答。
Cooby:
”
其實我對你嘅回覆好失望。你只係用語言藝術來帶大眾遊花園,沒有將實際的例子/ 意見提出及回答,看來未來於你帶領下都不過如此。
1. 你於另一回覆所提的「你圈子的opinion leader」,請問是誰?
2. 「你圈子的opinion leader」係由邊一位選出來?
3. 請問你以什麼準則或者條件才可以成為「你圈子的opinion leader」?
4. 你以什麼準則覺得「你圈子的opinion leader」可以代表我?代表其他人?是否經過公眾咨詢? 麻煩你實質有效地回答。我不需要空泛而無實質的回答。
”
William:
I am sorry that my reply gives you such feeling. I am not someone who can answer open-ended questions well. Any feedbacks you could give other than “你只係用語言藝術來帶大眾遊花園,沒有將實際的例子/ 意見提出及回答,看來未來於你帶領下都不過如此。”? I am looking at something constructive e.g. 建議我make preferences from previous good chairman / chairwoman? 滑水總會由前軰所有努力得來的, I am sure there are many talents.. .if you could direct me to someone who could offer good advices (that can include you), I am happy to connect and learn.
I may not be great now, but I promised I will try my best to become better, I hope you can hold back the premature conclusion for now. While I a not that good as what you mentioned, I trust the other 11 ex-co would aid me and we work as a team to create good result.
re 你圈子的opinion leader – this is the method I have in mind, which needs to be further elaborated based on a particular topic, if you could pass me a scenario question to answer that’s very well.
I suggest this – if there’s a specific topic like HK selection criteria we could discuss specifically, I am happy to get into the details like what I’ve replied to Chow our friend. I very much wanted to 實質有效地回答, but the questions needs to be based on targeted topic and less 空泛… thank you…
For example – 你圈子的opinion leader this topic, we actually need different people to represent different topics, say for example that depends upon which watersport; which topic for discussion (to host a comp? to change the selection critieria? to create a media post to promote the sport, etc) – there are too many variations in it if we don’t limit it to a specific purpose, and if your question is that “open-ended” I could also only answer very high-level / in-brief. 🙂
Happy to discuss further cooby!
當你提議出 “opinion leaders within my network”來聽取意見。
你是否已有人選及準則去衡量或挑選?我想了解一下你所提出或心目中的方案係以什麼形式去挑選opinion leaders?(例如從social media 的影響力嗎?從社會地位嗎?以擁有船數目?客人數目?)
就你以上回答,你以分門別類按需要來聽取聲音,「你個人意見來說」會如何確保opinion leaders 可以代表大部份人的意願?可唔可以舉出2個挑選opinion leaders 機制/例子點樣合適做wakesurf 的opinion leaders?要有提名人嗎?
例如要”共建一個和諧的家”都唔係日日拎個口號出黎 日日講就成事,都會有STEPS / PROCESS。就你所建議,挑選leaders 的的 STEPS & PROCESS係咩?要唔要經過committee 同意等等?
wakesurf 的 opinion leaders 你會定幾多位先叫合適地代表大部份的wakesurfer?
你嘅答覆往往只係俾出一個大IDEA有欠細節,我想了解多啲你會點樣去實行,如何實行。
Everything starts with ideation so we are talking about ideas first.
Happy to elaborate further, wait for me tonight.
Meanwhile, able to hear your perspectives to the questions you asked me as references?
Why because I don’t believe it’s always one person / chairman who gives answers and the others just ask, it should be a 2-way thing, if you could share what do you think re the answer to questions you ask?
Making it a discussion would be good here.
我提問係俾候選人去回答,
並唔係我黎給予意見點做。
我想了解下你候選想做chairman一位,講出的ideation 係點樣實行?方法?
既然你有idea,相信唔係空口講白話,隨便講個idea / slogan 就算,點都有架構有規劃先講出黎掛?
我嘗試打中文總結一下先
開始係係Bibi問到一樣嘢- 點樣可以make sure大家100%同意而家件事而去實行
我想講其實冇乜可能。”大家”即係乜嘢啊,大家嘅定義可以係全世界人,咁我哋而家係咪要問晒全世界人呢所有嘢,答案當然唔係。
咁大家又會問,咁我哋唔問晒全世界嘅人,咁咪唔持平?
嚴格來講大家做嘅決定,只可以盡力做到大部份人認同。所有事情都會有人同意唔同意,呢一樣係人有獨立思考嘅原因。
所以持平嘅定義係:被決定影響到嘅人同意。即係我哋喺度叫持份者。大家要同意咗個定義先,跟住我就講下個方法。而當持份者係全人類, 持平嘅定義係大多數人同意 / 我地有盡力令大多數人同意。
下一步我哋就要睇一睇要決定嘅事情嘅一啲特質:第一要將呢個決定分類究竟呢個決定影響到嘅人係兩個20個淨係200個人。例如如果我哋係要改香港隊選拔制度:最少最少我哋需要諮詢嘅人應該係滑水總會嘅成員。因為現在我哋選拔係需要選手參加滑水總會舉辦嘅香港比賽,而舉辦比賽需要嘅入場票就係做會員。意思即係任何一個會員都有機會係持份者。理應要達到持平我哋需要嘅係會員嘅意見我哋收集並且喺盡可能做到嘅情況底下委員同會員一齊做決定。
好咁講到呢度,咁我哋又點收集意見呢?係呢個情況我哋有幾個唔同嘅情景:第一題決定急切性並不是那麼急切,例如大家係想喺下一個比賽之前進行修改遇到下一個比賽之前有足夠嘅時間例如半年至一年,係呢個情況底下我哋需要收集嘅方法就係可以以開放既模式去問,例如可以send電郵到會員嘅inbox去問等佢哋打free text 去自由收集意見然後因為有足夠嘅時間我哋可以首先將佢分門別類咁呢個時間即係委員要需要做嘅工作。之後再拎出嚟去傾傾咗之後我哋應該係shortlist左兩至三個方案,然後公開去被會員去投票。咁樣就可以做到無論委員同埋會員嘅意見都有份去造就任何嘅決定,呢個就係我稱之為持平。
好咁我講咗個有足夠嘅時間我哋係點樣做OK咁如果唔係冇足夠嘅時間我哋又應該點做呢,呢個時間可能我哋唔可以做公眾資訊嘅情況底下,我哋就需要12 位委員去做一個好嘅決定。我想講呢一個係一個不理想嘅情況,大家無論點都好做完之後都需要坐低去諗一諗係咪有啲乜嘢做得唔好所以唔夠時間去做決定呢,而去下次改進。而任何嘅決定係呢一個並不是完美嘅情況底下,更需要document決定嘅人數所有委員選擇嘅方案,而最後因為乜嘢方法去選擇做一個方案。好啦呢度就係重點:決定點樣都唔會係持平但係我哋需要做嘅係溝通:委員需要將呢一個做得好急嘅決定broadcast比所有會員知道,清晰解釋決定嘅原因有考慮過嘅因素,因咩原因我地冇問哂全人類。i.e. 我地有盡力 (best effort) 令大多數人同意。
而係常常一個比較急切嘅情況:我所講嘅Opinion Leader 就會比較有用因為畢竟我哋唔可以因為資源同埋deadline嘅情況底下佢用一個最好嘅方法收集意見from all 持份者。
Back to opinion leader group,你問我有啲咩人需要去入邊,其實好簡單答案就係持份者盡力 (best effort)加哂全部人,所有比這個決定影響到嘅人。你問我Opinion leader Group可唔可以代表所有人:答案係唔可以。但係係咪唔可以代表所有人我哋就唔盡力去諮詢意見?不是。我哋做委員嘅原因其實就係代表不同嘅聲音因為大家嘅時間有限資源有限想做一個烏托邦咁嘅決定係冇可能,我應該都答唔到你嘅問題,但係我咁樣答係有意將大家嘅重點帶返去睇我嘅能力係點樣。
committee 入邊有12個人,我之所以選擇Wakesurf Chairman 嘅原因係唔知我嘅強項喺邊度。如果有無限嘅時間無限嘅資源無限嘅金錢其實我哋就唔需要講任何方法,而我嘅存在就係可以幫到大家去提議同帶領大家用一個實際啲嘅方法去執行我哋要執行嘅任何樣嘢??
我用聲音打字可能會打錯錯咗嘅唔好意思
你跟住可以問我”盡力 (best effort)”即係點 because based on pattern of your question, you will ask so… but i can do this also, see if you need to continue.
首先多謝你咁詳細去回答返你心入面嘅PLAN,起碼我見到有 STEPS and PROCESS,
我作出公眾嘅咨詢唔係要「針對」任何人,呢一點你唔好誤會。所有候選人都可以被提問。
滑水總會可以開放呢個平台俾大家發問,候選人就自然要回答各人的提問。回答不到位,自然提問人可以再追問。候選人亦唔應該私訊提問人要求作出任何對話嘅調整或者tune down。
講返正題,我問咁多問題有關opinion leaders,你無正面回答你理想嘅方法係點樣實行 或者去揀選,我一直提問嘅問題你都無俾出對題嘅方案。呢個係追問嘅原因及原意。
你既然提出opinion leaders,現時你提出方案「答案就係持份者盡力 (best effort)加哂全部人」。呢個我當然唔明,因為你每一個答案都係「盡你能力去滿足所有人」「用熱誠去做去解決問題」,我冇諗住問你盡力即係點,亦唔係想知你會唔會盡力,如果你用半分力都可以俾到一個完善嘅方案同計劃,我會拍手掌支持的,但如果你用盡全力都係嗌口號,咁呢個盡力冇乜意思。
舉個例吖。我一路提出話想要具體方案係期待你可以建議或承諾有關招募opinion leaders嘅實際方法同有冇諗過一啲方法係防止呢個group變成一言堂。例如 承諾會作公開招募?會有一個較長時間嘅招募期?招募範團體會涉及各區域、各surf club、現役香港隊、退役香港隊隊員 等等?
亦都會想知你心目中招募後點樣篩選所謂嘅opinion leader。係根據嗰個人嘅技術水平?影響力?玩咗幾多年?參加幾多個比賽?之前有冇幫過手?到時究竟係委員自己去決定邊個為opinion leader?定到時會員都有份參與?
另外最重要係你而家都見到其實成個wakesurf community都幾兩極化 ,大家都會好想自己嘅聲音會得到反應,咁係組成呢個opinion leaders group嘅時候,點樣去確保到唔會係一言堂呢? 例如你會唔會承諾到時個opinion leaders group會注意各team各區域香港隊員等佢哋參與人數嘅ratio平均? 例如視乎到時參與人數每區每隊嘅代表唔會多個兩個人?等大家放心將來組成呢個group唔會只代表某一小撮人嘅聲音?
我唔係要求你呢一刻所有嘢都已經confirm晒, 更加從來冇話你要問晒所有人嘅意見先等於持平。我只係期待你有考慮以上事情。我希望chairman 應該係有能力去address 到問題嘅重點,去作出一啲有效力實際可行嘅方案。
首先多謝你咁詳細去回答返你心入面嘅PLAN,起碼我見到有 STEPS and PROCESS,
我作出公眾嘅咨詢唔係要「針對」任何人,呢一點你唔好誤會。所有候選人都可以被提問。
滑水總會可以開放呢個平台俾大家發問,候選人就自然要回答各人的提問。回答不到位,自然提問人可以再追問。候選人亦唔應該私訊提問人要求作出任何對話嘅調整或者tune down。
Will – ok, good to know, in fact if you are 針對既我都會好認真直面去答架!
講返正題,我問咁多問題有關opinion leaders,你無正面回答你理想嘅方法係點樣實行 或者去揀選,我一直提問嘅問題你都無俾出對題嘅方案。呢個係追問嘅原因及原意。
你既然提出opinion leaders,現時你提出方案「答案就係持份者盡力 (best effort)加哂全部人」。呢個我當然唔明,因為你每一個答案都係「盡你能力去滿足所有人」「用熱誠去做去解決問題」,我冇諗住問你盡力即係點,亦唔係想知你會唔會盡力,如果你用半分力都可以俾到一個完善嘅方案同計劃,我會拍手掌支持的,但如果你用盡全力都係嗌口號,咁呢個盡力冇乜意思。
Will – 你覺唔覺得我哋咁樣傾其他人根本都follow唔到個context ? 我認同我一直都係嗌口號,用英文講過一次我其實唔係好明究竟而家我哋傾緊啲乜嘢。
舉個例吖。我一路提出話想要具體方案係期待你可以建議或承諾有關招募opinion leaders嘅實際方法同有冇諗過一啲方法係防止呢個group變成一言堂。例如 承諾會作公開招募?會有一個較長時間嘅招募期?招募範團體會涉及各區域、各surf club、現役香港隊、退役香港隊隊員 等等?
Will – 你當我唔記得,我哋要招募opinion leaders你做啲乜嘢決定?如果你哋比一個合適嘅情景提我,我會俾返一啲實際嘅意見佢點樣去處理。
你覺得我上面講港隊選拔機制要招募嘅持份者係滑水水總會嘅會員,你覺得啱唔啱?睇我哋有幾多時間,如果要搭理我嘅你嘅Opinion leader係全世界嘅人,係一個冇constraint既世界入邊。因為其實你咁問我我點答都係錯,你都冇俾個個例子我。或者可能我Miss咗??,因為我哋講嘢實在太多嘢打得太多字,我回應得簡單,係想大眾都睇得明,因為我覺得我唔係淨係同你一個人討論??♂️
亦都會想知你心目中招募後點樣篩選所謂嘅opinion leader。係根據嗰個人嘅技術水平?影響力?玩咗幾多年?參加幾多個比賽?之前有冇幫過手?到時究竟係委員自己去決定邊個為opinion leader?定到時會員都有份參與?
Will – 你覺得我哋傾啲乜嘢事情唔同嘅性質我哋都係要搵返個一班人去傾?因為我哋要變通,要視乎我哋嘅問緊嘅係乜嘢解決緊乜嘢事情,再去揀opinion leaders ?,不如再比個情景題我答一下
另外最重要係你而家都見到其實成個wakesurf community都幾兩極化 ,大家都會好想自己嘅聲音會得到反應,咁係組成呢個opinion leaders group嘅時候,點樣去確保到唔會係一言堂呢? 例如你會唔會承諾到時個opinion leaders group會注意各team各區域香港隊員等佢哋參與人數嘅ratio平均? 例如視乎到時參與人數每區每隊嘅代表唔會多個兩個人?等大家放心將來組成呢個group唔會只代表某一小撮人嘅聲音?
Will – 講真,其實我哋選12個人hkwsa,就已經上緊opinion leaders。你覺得現任嘅人,係咪符合你所講上面嘅條件,一路以嚟做嘅決定係咪已經盡量公平?上面嘅問題我已經回答左….
我唔係要求你呢一刻所有嘢都已經confirm晒, 更加從來冇話你要問晒所有人嘅意見先等於持平。我只係期待你有考慮以上事情。我希望chairman 應該係有能力去address 到問題嘅重點,去作出一啲有效力實際可行嘅方案。
Will – 最尾呢一句收到晒???? 如果想繼續討論可以繼續??
?或者我提返你,其實係你自己先提出 ‘I’m setting up a community of group people who are ALL OPINION LEADERS WITHIN MY NETWORK’ (exact quote from your reply) 自自然然人哋會想知究竟你set up緊嘅opinion leaders community有咩人?呢班opinion leaders community會負責啲咩?
跟住講講吓答答吓你又話委員已經係opinion leaders 咁你口中所謂嘅 ‘ I’m setting up a community of opinion leaders’ 究竟係指緊啲咩? ??其實你個意思係咪視乎唔同情況就會有唔同group嘅opinion leaders?
按你嘅講法,即係香港隊改革制度有一group?搞比賽有一group? 搞教練牌judge workshop又一group? 咁咩情況係由委員自己去處理滑水事宜?咩情況你會諮詢opinion leaders? 其實呢個提議係你提出來,係咪應該由你自己解釋返係乜嘢嘅情景下你會要搵opinion leaders group?咩情境下會係委員自己決定呢?
唔係想刁難你???而係真係想知清楚,因為我投票係投緊你適唔適合做主席。如果之後你同我講你network嘅opinion leaders都會有份做決策嘅話,我諗最基本我都要知道呢一班人係咩人,佢哋會參與程度同權力會係點
給香港滑水會及所有後選委員人提問:
提問1)在剛剛過去香港比賽在頒獎進行中,張上衣那高露出唔知内衣定泳衣人士,是否在後選委員名單中人?
提問2)作為香港滑水會委員會成員及運動員個人操守及言行舉止是否重要?
提問3)在香港本土頒獎禮已經作出以上行為!是否勝任為香港滑水會委員?如….有機會代表香港出外比賽嘅運動員在外地頒獎禮作出以上行為又是否恰當及適合代表香港隊出外比賽呢?
(請以中文作答)
1) 首先HKWSA會員及委員,代表香港的運動員個人操守及言行舉止固然十分重要,我亦十分認同。我並不知道你指名那一位選手,但我認為個人衣著和能否競爭成為委員會並沒有關係。泳衣乃女性參與滑水活動的適當裝束,穿著泳衣領獎亦沒有牽涉任何操守問題。如男性穿著泳褲領獎,我也看不出任何問題,如賽會對選手衣著有任何要求時,亦有責任清楚訂明。
2)這個提問令我更加想提出性別歧視問題,一位女性運動員不應該因為泳衣/賽服的款式而被批評為不合適不恰當,沒有操守甚至被聯想到內衣等安以猥褻思想,我希望當選後可以幫助委員會更關注這個問題。本人亦不明白為什麼HKWSA會通過此次答問,是否縱容大眾覺得女性展示泳衣是有失操守?
3) 重申,個人衣著並不代表個人品格操守,根據IWWF指引,並沒有限制女選手展示泳衣。國際比賽甚至iwwf亦有女選手展示泳衣同時披著國旗,並沒有為國家帶來蒙羞。
希望解答到你的問題
1) First of all, it is undoubtedly important to ensure that fellow HKWSA members, committee members and Hong Kong athletes has appropriate personal conduct, behaviour and also a strong sense of sportsmanship. Not sure which player you named but I don’t think clothing preferences has anything to do with being in an election for committee member. Swimsuits are appropriate attire for women participating in all water sports activities and there is no ethical issue involved in wearing a swimsuit to receive the award. If a man is wearing swimming trunks to receive the award, no one would have raised a problem. If the competition has any requirements on the attire of the contestants, it is then the association’s obligation to clearly state it and inform contestants (in which this case there weren’t any)
2) A female athlete should not be criticized for being inappropriate or unethical due to the style of the swimsuit/competition suit let alone even linking it with underwear. (This is slut-shaming). I would also like to question HKWSA for approving this question, does it mean that the association tolerates people thinking that it’s a disgrace/misbehaviour/unethical to show their swimwear? In another word, allowing someone to slut shame/internet bully one another publicly on your platform? Furthermore, this will also be one of the things that I will strive to get it right if I am elected.
3) To reiterate, personal clothing does not represent personal character and conduct. According to the IWWF guidelines, there is no restriction on female athletes from displaying swimsuits. International competitions and even iwwf also have female players showing their swimsuits while carrying the national flag as a cape, which did not bring shame to the country. References can be provided upon request,
Hope I answered your question. Thank you.
To Angel Ng
高興你Angel Ng回覆我提問
首先我提問是指動作及行為並不是指衣著!假設性問題:當有一日你是頒獎嘉賓,接受獎項人士在你面前張面褲除低只剩泳褲或內褲,你覺得當刻受到尊重嗎?
其次是我提問中並無歧視任何姓别及衣著!
最後我之前都講過我並唔認識你哋大部分後選委員,所以並不存在針對任何一位後選委員, 繼續努力未來是你們一班年輕人的不用急。
TO: ALL CANDIDATES
FROM: HKWSA PAID MEMBER Sarah Ching Hing Lai
作為一個”資深”的港隊隊員和HK W S A會員,發問的人當時沒有發言或控制在場其他男士的要求。
作為一個男士港隊成員,是不是應該要保護HKWSA 的女士成員、避免欺凌年輕滑水者的情況嗎?
或如果當時真的覺得不恰當,發問的人是不是應該好好跟在場參與的女士和男士好好傾談,去盡快避免同一事情發生,而不是現在過了幾個月才提及這件事?
謝謝
To Sarah –
是,同意
To: Sarah
Fr: David
絕對同意。
In reply to Chow’s follow-up.
視乎改革後睇幾多個比賽同埋各比賽佔比 因為如果睇幾個比賽或者佔比唔同「有幾多個人比賽會贏到第一名但係又唔會夠分入港隊呢?」呢個情況都真係會發生 又或者如果你覺得呢個情況唔會點發生 咁點解唔索性第一名就一定入得港隊 以盡量減少需要主觀決定嘅情況?
我唸問題重點係委員可以基於乜準則去衡量某組別嘅冠軍係by luck但某組別嘅冠軍係by real performance ?係咪會睇埋比賽以外平時滑水嘅表現 ?如果係咁係咪會造成對其他選手包括第二第三名唔公平?
唔使bilingual 回覆啦 純粹覺得呢一點可以再斟酌下
William:
Thanks Chow. I think a comprehensive system (if I am to set this right) will need to provide at least some guidance on exceptional handling. You’re right in the sense that if we set the system right there may not be such case due to the low chance, yet there’s still chance that we have to go for such decision making for 1% case? By doing so the team won’t be directionless when circumstances really happened. (quoted the COVID year we couldn’t hold any comps at all and this rarely happened but it happened anyway)
咁點解唔索性第一名就一定入得港隊 以盡量減少需要主觀決定嘅情況?- re this one why the suggestion is subject to the committee’s consensus is for ensuring the person who wins the champion did not get this by chance / luck. And this is evidenced by 1. his / her previous track records i.e. competition results from other non-IWWF / HKWSA as reference; 2. and even from social media account as ref.; 3. and lastly by us committee group who are also players in the sport we should have the ability to make the right judgement call.
It’s required to strike the balance as committee to take the right amount of risk for creating the best result for the sport in my view. There’s no perfect system, every system is imperfect and subject to improvements over time, why we need the committee group here to perfect it.
As for 如果係咁係咪會造成對其他選手包括第二第三名唔公平? – I think it’s fair to them also since there’s only 1 champion plus they earned good HK Team eligibility points by being 2nd & 3rd anyways.
In reply to Bibi.
”
Now is 4pm on 6 Sep, why only some of the candidates are replying questions/comments while some are missing? Shall we use IG instead as a media for communication in future so that to cope with the new ages? How u may gather the new ages to reply formal stuff if ur team may be elected? How or what you think is better communication channel for HKWSA? These are also wanna ask HKWSA but not available this time. Thanks!
”
William:
Looking at this like an exchange or it’s Q&A, is it possible that you share also your opinion / views for the above from the perspective being former chairwoman. I’ll share this view but it’s more constructive if we take a ref. from the person who’ve taken this role 🙂
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
“ My rationale is at the bare minimum, we should create / reinforce a system which is accepted by the players who’re in it. (we could run forums / use any means to gather their views). If this is not accepted by the players in the field we are pushing talents away, which ultimately violates the objective of putting together any HK Teams.” In replying Cooby’s question u have above reply. How you can sure u may make decision based on most of the community? I.e. How you quantify the % of comments from “the players who are in it”? When most of the stuff needs to ask “the players who are in it”, how you may manage the cut off time? After discussion among ECs to get final decision which final decision may vary from your proposal and what will u do? and execute it (remember the ECs decision may opposite to ur proposal and how u manage the “players are in it”?) if your team are elected. Sorry that were situation i faced all the time because every EC has 1 equal vote only.Being Chairman doesnt mean to have more votes and power??♀️ Based on AoA but surprisingly u will see some people think in way. Thanks!
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
In reply to Bibi.
”
Now is 4pm on 6 Sep, why only some of the candidates are replying questions/comments while some are missing? Shall we use IG instead as a media for communication in future so that to cope with the new ages? How u may gather the new ages to reply formal stuff if ur team may be elected? How or what you think is better communication channel for HKWSA? These are also wanna ask HKWSA but not available this time. Thanks!
”
William:
Looking at this like an exchange or it’s Q&A, is it possible that you share also your opinion / views for the above from the perspective being former chairwoman. I’ll share this view but it’s more constructive if we take a ref. from the person who’ve taken this role ?
BiBi:
U sure u wanna ask me?? Haha! I dont think my comments are valuable at all now??♀️~ what i saw (may not representable???) is new ones may prefer to post at their own social media for comments or questions while not directly asking those ECs to find out the facts. Before HKWSA concludes and replies (from HKWSA prospective, can’t reply in such a rush, right? Need to double check the facts!), there are already many misunderstanding cox their friends repost and comments. For a volunteer group of ECs, processing and replying time is needed which is not being well understood! So in such a fast forward social media bombing, its difficult to catch up! Well, one more essential point to note is as a Chairman cant disclose internal stuff based on confidentiality. Even u wanna speed up the communication by talking to some groups of riders personally which may not be allowed as well! The balance is difficult as I mentioned in my IG before (rarely talked in IG on this topic for me too?)! Sure I hope u have a way with your network! 🙂
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
You can see for a whole day of this forum time, only few of the candidates are positively replying and i am not sure other candidates or others from wakesports community they are not aware of this forum (may be not at IG??♀️) or they are busy or just no comments. Or our discussion seems too boring and not juicy?!! This is just a true reflection of communication situation now! This is a forum which can show appreciation and support but not just for critique, right?! ?
多謝Boy Boy提問~
作為候選人之一,首先都要先了解事件,因為頒獎時我還在海上,並沒有親眼見事情經過。
其實Wakesurf這個水上運動,衣著都是穿著泳裝/泳衣是並沒有問題的,但似乎問題是在於公開場合上作出一個不雅舉動,如果這位運動員是代表香港或是在委員當中,委員會理應相討在這件事件上是否要作出處罸。
就問題3,假設性問題我不能作答覆。
反而想知道候選人主席/提名人之一 @William 有了解這件事嗎?
To: TAM Yee Ting Jan
From: LAI Sarah Ching Hing
Content/Question:
Thank you for your reply. In regards to your reply: IF after improving the criteria of HK team member selection, there are more qualified members in the HK team, and that you are no longer on the team… how do you handle this conflict of interest vs. improving the selection criteria to be more inclusive of new talents? Will you still be as devoted to the sport?
This is purely a hypothetical scenario.
Please kindly reply in English as my Cantonese Chinese reading skill is not that good.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Thanks for your hypothetical scenario!
I love this sport and so do you. If we all agree on a selection system based on the criteria set forth, welcoming the new talents, there won’t be any existence of the so called “conflict of interest” in this case.
My English writing is no better than your Chinese reading, my apologies for any miscommunication. Please be rest assured that my devotion to this sports would have no chance to be undermined under your hypothetical circumstances.
To: ALL CANDIDATES
From: LAI Sarah Ching Hing
Content/Question:
How do you handle discriminating members who are not inclusive of other members’ race, culture, sexual orientation, personality, preferences etc? How do you handle micro aggressions?
Thank you.
Thank you.
To: Sarah
Fr: David
I will work together with the rest of the committee and build a culture that is inclusive and respectful of other people’s culture, gender, race, age , sexual orientation, etc.
When there is a member that exhibit
discriminating behaviour, I will speak to that person and remind him of the importance of being respectful as a member of HKWSA. It all starts with the executive committee and committee members to build a stronger association with a more diverse, inclusive and respectful culture.
謝謝boy boy 的問題。為了方便各位來自不同國籍的會員我會用中文和英文作答。
1)請饒恕我當天不場。你知道當天穿着泳衣的人是誰嗎?
2)作為香港滑水會委員或是代表香港的運動員,良好的品行和良好的體育精神當然重要。
3) 所以滑水總會要應視乎事情的嚴重程度需要發出警告,罰款甚至禁止運動員在一段時間內參賽/委員在一段時間內加入委員會。例如用禁藥,歧視或作政治宣傳等等。
Thanks boy boy for the question. For the convenience of members from different nationalities, I will answer in both Chinese and English.
1) Please forgive me for not being there on the day. Do you know the name of the person who was wearing the swimsuit?
2) As an executive member of the HKWSA or an athlete representing Hong Kong, having good conduct and good sportsmanship are essential.
3) Therefore, HKWSA should issue warnings, fines or even banning athletes or executive members from participating for a certain period of time depending on the seriousness of the matter. For example, drug use, discrimination or political propaganda, etc.
In reply to this follow-up by Bibi:
quote
“ My rationale is at the bare minimum, we should create / reinforce a system which is accepted by the players who’re in it. (we could run forums / use any means to gather their views). If this is not accepted by the players in the field we are pushing talents away, which ultimately violates the objective of putting together any HK Teams.”
In replying Cooby’s question u have above reply. How you can sure u may make decision based on most of the community? I.e. How you quantify the % of comments from “the players who are in it”? When most of the stuff needs to ask “the players who are in it”, how you may manage the cut off time? After discussion among ECs to get final decision which final decision may vary from your proposal and what will u do? and execute it (remember the ECs decision may opposite to ur proposal and how u manage the “players are in it”?) if your team are elected. Sorry that were situation i faced all the time because every EC has 1 equal vote only.Being Chairman doesnt mean to have more votes and power??♀️ Based on AoA but surprisingly u will see some people think in way. Thanks!
unquote
William:
Thanks for this and agreed that we can’t make sure 100% and yet this does not stop us from trying with best effort. Appreciated the experience sharing Bibi and I will definitely take into account.
I am setting up a community group of people who are all opinion leaders within my network, they are the proxies who represent the voices of many players, whoever got elected as EC can leverage what we’ve created to collect more voices during open consultation period for any proposed decisions in place.
1. 你所提的「你圈子的opinion leader」,請問是誰?
2. 「你圈子的opinion leader」係由邊一位選出來?
3. 請問你以什麼準則或者條件才可以成為「你圈子的opinion leader」?
4. 你以什麼準則覺得「你圈子的opinion leader」可以代表我?代表其他人?是否經過公眾咨詢?
Thanks cooby. I’ve replied on above in your other section which posted the same questions.
Bibi:
You can see for a whole day of this forum time, only few of the candidates are positively replying and i am not sure other candidates or others from wakesports community they are not aware of this forum (may be not at IG??♀️) or they are busy or just no comments. Or our discussion seems too boring and not juicy?!! This is just a true reflection of communication situation now! This is a forum which can show appreciation and support but not just for critique, right?! ?
William:
I think yes to some players this is boring but I respect this. But as long as there’s still 1 person who cares about the matters we discussed today it’s very well.
Noted the situation and let’s try to improve this!
To: Jan
From: HKWSA paid member Wong Sai Hong William
Content/Question:
1. 想問吓你點解會提名我??多謝你先
2. 知道你參選之後我有問過你會唔會做chair, 你話唔會因為呢個係”死位”, 我相信你意思應該係話個位好難做可唔可以分享吓你嘅見解
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
In reply to ur feedback from my questions (its too long so i better dont copy and paste again), how you may decide which proposed decision needs open consultation from the opinion leaders? And what about representation from those current HK Team, or even those were blamed when at Asian Champ of Korea?
U know, when as EC, I tried to push top/good riders to Asian Champ (thats what i always said & support too!) but then those riders might have personal reasons and rejected. Then u have to send other available good HK teammates to go and try getting good results (in the best interests of HKWSA, riders and even HK!). In return, HKWSA and all who went Korea were blamed for not qualified to represent HK from the “community”?!?! What a shame! ? are these good HK team riders who went Korea really just minor? can they being qualified as “opinion leader” in your list? I understood unifying the wakesports community is really challenging and cant 100% satisfying all wants! Hope this help u to imagine what u are going to face if you are elected.
And seems u havent answered my question regarding “ After discussion among ECs to get final decision which final decision may vary from your proposal and what will u do? and execute it (remember the ECs decision may opposite to ur proposal and how u manage the “opinion leaders”?) if your team are elected”? Thats my headache too when as EC!
Sorry i m still 5 pm at Switzerland but its late at HK, u dont need to rush reply me!?
Hi William, i hope u may have time to answer my questions regarding opinion leaders and what will u do if ECs decision is contradict to ur proposal?
U answered Cooby regarding “opinion leaders” have to based on topic…? So are u saying, for examples, if u talk about selection of HK team u will ask list A of your “opinion leaders”, if u talk about competition u will ask list B of your “opinion leaders”, sth like this based on what topic?? ? i am curious cox all these topics are related how can just ask particular group of “opinion leaders”. And what about other who is out of your “opinion leaders” list?? Sorry i cant get the point but CAN ONLY SEE DISCRIMINATION OF COMMENTS from people outside your “opinion leaders” list! You always say u wanna gather comments from all round (which i believed) but this reply to me looks contradicted! Would you please explain if I am wrong? And I hope to see there is no more LIST(S) if you will be elected! ??
Bibi – so 你可以refer返上去我同cooby既中文對答
我地做決定要變通,唔應該死板咁用一種方法
如果用左唔洽當既方法做決定就好可能會做成你上面講既結果 – 結果唔好時大家都唔開心lose lose situation
Bibi, coming back to this (sorry cos I’ve seen your mention about no rush so I did so):
Bibi –
how you may decide which proposed decision needs open consultation from the opinion leaders? And what about representation from those current HK Team, or even those were blamed when at Asian Champ of Korea?
William –
Basically I will divide the decision into 2 types – 1. executing as per the rule book (say HK Team has well established selection criteria black n white); 2. Whether we are making a decision which is rather controversial / no clear black n white guidelines to follow.
For type #1 – there will not be required to do consultation because it’s as if asking if the planet earth is round in shape or flat land.
For type #2 – We MAY go for consultation; which is subject to a) urgency, i.e. how soon do we need a decision to be made; b) whether there are very diverted ideas from the Ex-co group. I trust the 12 ex-co formed for a reason i.e. they are representations of different talents; perspectives; expertises so will be able to make good decisions.
To your examples – representation of HK, given there’s well defined criteria to follow, not required for any consultation (the well defined rules aren’t FOLLOWED / executed in the right way does not count)
Bibi –
And seems u havent answered my question regarding “ After discussion among ECs to get final decision which final decision may vary from your proposal and what will u do? and execute it (remember the ECs decision may opposite to ur proposal and how u manage the “opinion leaders”?) if your team are elected”? Thats my headache too when as EC!
William –
If there are really almost completely opposite / diverted views within the EC, we should go for forming the consultation and my view then this will be executed in a way like the following:
1) the ex-co team decides on what are the options (based on the different ideas from the group; short-list 2-3 options with the ex-co voting for that
2) recruit the consultation group and collect the preferences (e.g. how many % opted for #1; how many opted for #2 option etc), let the consultation group to make the final decision. Reason being the shortlisted solutions / options should all be executable or the ex-co would not have proposed them at the 1st place
Remarks and most importantly –
1. there’s no 1 single best solution to any issue
2. we should not think the ex-co are gods and have absolute power to do everything, we need to involve the members as people don’t join HKWSA just to enjoy but also to contribute
3. the methodology is used by many corporates nowadays and it’s called “Design Thinking” / “Customer-centric Design” , i.e. that means the boss does not always make the best solution; instead, we need to think of who is the system design for and who actually will use the system / solution – and involve them in the 設計 process @Cooby, this is also the method i talked about etc – on google there is a good page for this if you want to understand more…. I did not want “throw school bag” but I’ve been doing this for many years as management consultant so am trying to apply a better method to help the association thrives.. let me try to reply to your question in more detail… (but I don’t afford to type in that many words actually… better we could chat directly via phone / come out for a coffee if you want ¨̮
To: WONG Sai Hong William
From: HKWSA paid member Leung Pui Yee
Content/Question:
Thanks for all your replies! Sorry i was busy In other stuff and just read ur replies. Yeah let see the votes and pls show us your school bags if u may be elected!
Again, if decision by 12 ECs may not be same as ur proposal, u may try do consultation to convince them and show them what actually is the” best” idea from ur “持份者”. I think we may see many consultations coming up later on! ?
And as Cooby mentioned, how u may deal with the “兩極化” of riders? and make sure respect between them as a middle man???
And, make focus on youth training? As u may see the level tests launched since early this year and actually not much coaches are pushing it! Do u think its helping to promote the sport? What you may think of HKWSA can do further? I saw few forum questions about youth development but seems u haven’t replied all??!! Is youth development of wakesurf on your to do list as a candidate of Chairman?
To Boyboy Jan
From William
我有了解但係唔知道事情嘅全部。件事發生係7月,我相信hkwsa應該有去了解整件事而係收到提名之後確保候選人符合條件同埋操守。
除非hkwsa係approve提名嘅時候沒有考量這個因素,我希望大家嘅討論圍繞着怎樣幫助總會推廣滑水運動??
To William
先多謝William用你寶貴嘅時間來回覆我提問!
首先我同你哋所有後選委員唔太熟悉連電話 ig 及 fd都無連你哋係邊個我都未必知?你本人都只係同我同船玩過一兩次,最熟悉都只有Jan Tam一個,相信我無理由會針對你哋每一位後選委員。
亦都多謝HKWSA設立這個平台給各會員向後選委員提問。
我提問咗3條簡單問題?而當事人沒有回覆我提問,其實只要當事人回覆我,當日接受頒獎時實在太興奮,令自己手足無措突然做出一些可能令在場人士覺得不雅動作深感抱憾,在這向當日頒獎嘉賓及在場觀禮人士作出道歉我會接受我相信其他人都會接受,始終都係年輕都會犯錯不自知,我哋做前輩都會給予機會及有責任多加提點。
至於你本人都係後選委員主席之一有責任解答我提問,唔好推卸責任將我提問推向HKWSA ,假設你當選委員或主席時是否又會張各會員提問推向HKWSA?在這我又想下你本人解答下我,作為香港代表隊隊員及香港委員會會員及主席,個人技術重要定個人品格重要呢?
至於你希望大家嘅討論都係圍繞怎樣幫助總會推廣滑水運動,這個問題我已經見有其他會員向你提問過我亦都不作提問。
其實你有冇留意到HKWSA每年都有好多大大小小唔同推廣滑水運動嘅項目呢?
Boy boy yes 好耐冇見!係大埔度一齊玩過一次
我見到當事人回覆左了。
我提問咗3條簡單問題?而當事人沒有回覆我提問,其實只要當事人回覆我,當日接受頒獎時實在太興奮,令自己手足無措突然做出一些可能令在場人士覺得不雅動作深感抱憾,在這向當日頒獎嘉賓及在場觀禮人士作出道歉我會接受我相信其他人都會接受,始終都係年輕都會犯錯不自知,我哋做前輩都會給予機會及有責任多加提點。
WIlliam: 呢個你講得好好??
至於你本人都係後選委員主席之一有責任解答我提問,唔好推卸責任將我提問推向HKWSA ,假設你當選委員或主席時是否又會張各會員提問推向HKWSA?在這我又想下你本人解答下我,作為香港代表隊隊員及香港委員會會員及主席,個人技術重要定個人品格重要呢?
William: 我提到hkwsa嘅意思係可能件事已經被處理咗唔需要再提起絕對唔可以推卸責任??
技術同品格同等重要。
至於你希望大家嘅討論都係圍繞怎樣幫助總會推廣滑水運動,這個問題我已經見有其他會員向你提問過我亦都不作提問。
其實你有冇留意到HKWSA每年都有好多大大小小唔同推廣滑水運動嘅項目呢?
William:明白哂
我有留意到呀。除咗比賽以外我盡可能可以幫到手嘅都會幫手?♂️
To the new Chairman of Wakesurf EC Committee Nominee,
From: HKWSA paid member Charles Wan
Can you please tell us exactly;
1. How do you plan to promote the sport, especially to youth enthusiasts?
2. This sport is not especially cheap, How do you plan to get funding in relation to the promotion of this sport and help make it more accessible to the ones who would love to try but are underprivileged?
3. Competition, are you planning to create a set of HONG KONG only rules? Or follow IWWF?
4. Safety standards for the industry. Insurance, Charter license, Coach license etc? Will HKWSA work closely with the HK Marine Department to make sure the industry standard is met at least on safety and licensing concerns?
Dear William 候選主席.
首先係你搵我提名你,當時我都覺得奇怪,點解你會搵我……不過我覺得冇所謂,你想做主席,我係樂意提名你的~
主席位梗係難做啦,外間咁多聲音,咁做又唔啱,咁做又錯……你依家明白到少許感受了嗎?如果我當選委員,其中之一個理由,都係希望想幫助到你減少一些外間嘅聲音
Thanks Jan.
明白。我想問如果我退選你會唔會有興趣做chairwoman?
給香港滑水會及所有(後)選委員人提問:
提問1)在剛剛過亞洲賽在頒獎進行中,張滑浪板露出唔知香港定加油人士,是否在(後)選委員名單中人?
提問2)作為香港滑水會委員會成員及運動員個人操守及言行舉止是否重要?
提問3)在亞洲賽頒獎禮已經作出以上行為!是否勝任為香港滑水會委員?如….有機會代表香港出外比賽嘅運動員在外地頒獎禮作出以上行為又是否恰當及適合代表香港隊出外比賽呢?
提問4)我看見不只一香港隊員在頒獎台以滑浪板展示此圖案,在香港人心目中這圖案充滿政治色彩. 請問香港滑水會及所有(後)選委員,在國際賽頒獎台上展示此圖案是否合適. 有否違反國際或中國香港奧委會對運動員應表現政治中立的要求.
提問5) 如發現香港隊員有違法行為 (如國安法), 你們會如何處理?
(請以中文作答)
To William,
From Law Wai Sing Vincent
Re: exception handling above.
首先多謝Wiliam 用心解答問題??
我同意Chow 的觀點,當加入了主觀決定時,很容易讓公眾覺得不公平。所以要特別小心,我試下rephrase Chow的問題吧.
你應該知道Team selection criteria 裡面其實已經有special case consideration 去處理無法估計既“1%“。就是只要90%EC通過即可入隊.
實質案例:Asian champ 截止報名之前,三年內只有一個香港比賽分數作參考,而hkwsa 已經嘗試用special case 邀請1 位女surfer加入港隊, 可惜最後也未有代表香港出賽。
請問如果你當時是chairman, 你會選擇:
1. 那一位加入港隊?
2. 那一位不可出赛?
3. 用什麼准則作批核?
4. 採用什麼資料作Reference?
5. 邊個去收集以上資料?
來去做這個公平的決定,從而達到“best ppl representing hk“這個效果.
以上希望其他候选人也可作答??
Thank you
Hey Vince, hi.
If you don’t mind I reply in English, I received so many questions which helped me to improve my thinking a lot in the meantime.
我同意Chow 的觀點,當加入了主觀決定時,很容易讓公眾覺得不公平。所以要特別小心,我試下rephrase Chow的問題吧.
William: Definitely, so the special case consideration has to also be specially designed, based on my proposal the special approval only applies to the champion winner who does not manage to get in via the point accumulation system. This is 1 more objective criteria as I said above on top of the current special case handling which is to be MORE 主觀. We can consider to keep both however given this serves different senarios, i.e. 1 for someone who took part in the comp; another is simply special handling which can target anyone.
你應該知道Team selection criteria 裡面其實已經有special case consideration 去處理無法估計既“1%“。就是只要90%EC通過即可入隊.
William: Yes I read that.
實質案例:Asian champ 截止報名之前,三年內只有一個香港比賽分數作參考,而hkwsa 已經嘗試用special case 邀請1 位女surfer加入港隊, 可惜最後也未有代表香港出賽。
請問如果你當時是chairman, 你會選擇:
1. 那一位加入港隊?
William: Actually I wasn’t 100% sure what happened before as in who HKWSA was looking at? do we want to openly discuss the details? While I tried to answer with some generic answers hope they would apply – that would depend on how many spots do we have / allowed for this special case, we select based upon affordability, I suppose there’s a upper limit re how many people in 1 team / same category.
2. 那一位不可出赛?
3. 用什麼准則作批核?
William: Based on what I’ve replied Chow if we can’t make reference to HWKSA hosted comp results. 1. his / her previous track records i.e. competition results from other non-IWWF / HKWSA as reference; 2. and even from social media account as ref.; 3. and lastly by us committee group who are also players in the sport we should have the ability to make the right judgement call.
4. 採用什麼資料作Reference?
5. 邊個去收集以上資料?
William: Wakesurf Committee as a team for sure.
來去做這個公平的決定,從而達到“best ppl representing hk“這個效果.
以上希望其他候选人也可作答??
Thank you
To: All Candidates
Fr: Law Wai Sing Vincent
Re: team selection criteria
希望各候選人可以把自己team selection 修改方案詳細介紹一下。
請重點考慮以下幾點:
1. 方案的適應能力,在每年0-3 個比賽也可應付
2. discount rate/ time frame (如果按年份糸calendar 定fiscal 定點)
3. 6揀4?6 揀3?4 揀3?
4. 2019 的比賽按什麼discount rate?
5. 明年/後年糸點樣discount
出隊機制,糸咪一吾夠分即刻出?如果已經報左外國比賽/訓練,但計分賽後維持唔到ranking, 系咪取消資格?
6. Exception handling (樓上)
當然歡迎任何和以前完全不同的選拔機制。如果有請更詳盡解釋所有條款。
To: Vincent
Fr:David
Thank you so much for your fantastic question. The Hong Kong wakesurf team selection is my biggest concern and needed to be corrected as soon as possible.
Before we set up a team selection criteria, first we need to set out our goals, understand the failure of current team selection method. So that we can suggest any amendments or solution that can address all the issues, which are then subject to debate and fine tuning within the executive committee.
The goal is to select the best athletes to represent Hong Kong. In terms of their skill level and their consistency. Everyone should have a fair and equal chance to be selected into the team.
I believe a rule base system can avoid any bias derived from human judgements. However, when a set of rules that can no longer apply to the current situation due to unforeseen circumstances, the rules themselves must be changed to adapt to the new environment.
Currently, competition ranking scores are calculated based on 2 sets of rules.
Rule 1
Current year scores are not discounted. Last year’s scores are discounted by 20%.
Scores from 2 years ago are discounted by 40%. Inactive for 3 years, all scores are wiped clean. (Scores that are over 3 years should not be counted)
Rule 2
You add up the best 4 scores (with appropriate discounts) out of the past 6 competitions to created a ranking system.
In a normal pre covid situation, where there are 2 competitions per year. The 2 rules work together.
However, since covid. Many local competition were cancelled.
2022 only 1 comp
2021 only 1 comp
2020 no comp
2019 there were 2 comps
2018 there were 2 comps
2017 there were 2 comps
The problem arises when you apply rule 2, by adding 4 best scores (with discount factor) out of that past 6 competitions together to generate the competition ranking scores.
In the recent Korea competition held in August 2022. You would potentially need to add scores all the way back to the second half of 2017.
Because you are adding scores from 5 years ago, veteran athletes would have an unfair advantage over newer athletes who had very few chances to accumulate competition scores since many competitions were cancelled and for some reasons, scores that were more than 3 years old were not discounted to 0.
On the other hand, if you emphasise rule 1, which is to only count scores (with appropriate discounts) that were within 3 years old. There were only a maximum of 3 scores to add. Violating rule 2, which is to add up 4 best scores (with appropriate discounts) out of the past 6 competitions.
Personally, I do not think hkwsa deliberately did anything wrong. They were just blindly applying a set of rules that contradict itself under the current covid environment where many competition were cancelled.
In the mean time, over the past 2 to 3 years, the level of wakesurfing in Hong Kong had improved drastically due to the sudden gain in popularity of the sport. Many athletes with exceptionally high skill level who had proven themselves in recent local competitions were unable to join the Hong Kong team. Which is against the original goal of selecting the best athletes to represent Hong Kong.
To be fair, currently there is a rule for exceptionally high skill level athletes to join the Hong Kong team squad with the approval of 90% of the executive members. To my knowledge, only 1 person were granted this status recently, but many were ignored or disapproved.
To address this issue, the Hong Kong team selection process must be changed to better reflect the current situation and the likely on going covid environment.
Proposal 1.
Rule 1
Current year scores are not discounted. Last year’s scores are discounted by 20%.
Any scores that are more than 2 years old (counting from the date of calculating) will be wiped clean.
The reason for only counting the recent 2 years score is because as of now, wakesurfing skill level as a whole is improving rapidly in Hong Kong. It is much harder to win the current year competition compare to the year before so anything more than that, do not reflect the current skill level of wakesurfing, so the scores over 2 years should not be counted at all.
Rule 2
You add up the best 2 scores (with appropriate discounts) out of the past 2 years (instead of past 6 competitions).
In normal circumstances, there would be 4 local competitions in 2 years. Adding the best 2 scores will ensure athletes skill level matches with their consistency. In the same time allowing talented new comers to join the Hong Kong team after participating in as little as 2 competitions. It also allows athletes to skip one or two competitions due to sickness or participating in foreign competitions.
In the event where local competitions are cancelled. You still count the best 2 scores (with discounts) within that past 2 years.
In the event where there are only 1 local competition in the past 2 years. You take the only score there is.
In the unfortunate event where no local event were held during the past 2 years.
Committee members should take references from other reputable competitions from another reputable organisation to select athletes to represent Hong Kong. The final selection would be approved by 90% of the executive committee.
I sincerely hope this tweak in the rules of the Hong Kong team selection process can address the current imminent issue. Be able to select the best athletes to represent Hong Kong in the current unpredictable environment.
Note: This is just 1 of many proposals that I have in mind but I cannot state them all here. I just want to show everyone my train of thoughts on how to analyse a problem and what can be done to solve it. As always, I am open to other suggestions or any constructive criticisms.
僅代表香港滑水總會提醒返大家
1. 必須使用實名 所有名稱與會員登記電郵不符嘅留言 將有可能被刪除
2. 希望大家集中討論候選人的理念及未來發展方向
3. 如有任何不當的留言或攻擊性的言論 本會有權將該留言刪除
多謝 Chau Chun Kit 嘅提問。
首先我的板上係貼住有香港加油貼紙。
這貼紙在我板上至少出現過三次比賽上,我並不覺得我需要為我的言行有什麼要注意,我問心無愧,我反而覺得這樣貼紙代表著我在每次比賽上要為自己加油,由其代表香港到外地比賽,香港運動員更加需要加油。
如果就這句詞語將政治同運動拉上關係,冇問題的……我願意撕下這貼紙。
你好,感謝你的回覆。明白到貼紙為你帶來幸運,而不是展示閣下的政治理念。希望其他人看到不會受到影響。
我在其他提問中,看到有人批評一女生在頒獎禮作出不雅動作。
首先,我有看到網上的頒獎片段,明白你沒有看過。女生步行至頒獎台前,準備接受頒獎禮時。在場有男仕大叫(除衫除衫),我亦見到在場主持亦再重覆一次(除衫喎),之後再聽到有人大叫(應該叫佢除底衫)。主持相信是由hkwsa安排,我不排除在場大叫的男仕跟hkwsa有任何關連。
我不敢説這是不是一場玩笑,因為我看不見是誰大叫。在我看來,男仕和主持的行為有涉嫌性騷擾的可能,當然也可能是玩笑一場。女生一臉尷尬拉上上衣才平息這事件。
大家也應該看到不少體壇有關的性騷擾新聞,你作為(後)任女委員會否再去了解事件,作出援助。請問你有沒有查明清楚,就作出應該懲罰的評價?有否想過你有可能在受害者心理上灑鹽?
如你發現這事件是一場性騷擾(涉嫌從hkwsa男主持口中指示要除衫),你會否要求評擊這女生的其他會員作出鄭重的道歉?
一般人看到受到性騷擾的女生,應該不會將其評為不雅吧。
你好 Chau Chun Kit.
因為本人當時不在現場,我亦不是法官及執法部門,所以就那事件是否構成性騷擾,本人好難作評論
但作為一位(後)選女委員及女運動員 若然真的有性騷擾的嫌疑,我當然覺得要秉公辦理,查明清楚一定需要了解事情嘅始末,例如查明點解該名女士頒獎時群眾會作出叫囂,誰先作出叫囂,當事人嘅感受及反應,以及其他現埸大眾對事件的睇法……
如當事人真的感覺到被性騷擾,我樂意協助或即時報警處理。
在此我都呼籲如果各運動員覺得被性騷擾,請立刻向滑水會投訴,千萬不用也不好尷尬就範,一定要say no!
同樣地……如果會員見到任何委員或任何香港隊隊員嘅行為失當, 也絕對有權提出質疑並向滑水會反映。
點解無人答我既問題架?
係咪又揀人黎答?
而家都唔答,黎梗睇黎啲問題都係石沉大海
To: All Candidates
From: HKWSA paid member Cheng Sin Ying Cindy
1. 請問點樣推廣wakesurf大眾化令多D人可以參與呢個活動?
2. 就以上有人提及如果就一次比賽攞第一名就可以成為香港代表隊既話,係點樣去平衡長遠既發展?跟據之前有提過一年想搞3-4個比賽,咁比賽會係預計係咩月份進行?如果當一年有4個比賽,每3個月進行一次比賽,係咪就每3個月轉一次香港代表隊?
3. 請問做judge 係靠經驗定係以IWWF official judge 為準?邊樣你覺得可以服眾?同埋會否定期review judge 既資格?
4. 有意見先會有進步,黎梗會唔會定立一個公眾平台比大家發表意見同討論,而就回覆時間會否有一個基準? 我見之前係IG 一唔立即回覆就被無限TAG
5. 身為香港代表隊有出國比賽代表香港資格,但無去到,咁仲係咪可以叫做香港代表隊,明白唔係次次都會去到,會否定立幾多次唔去就唔再係香港代表隊
6. 就問責問題,如果委員有做錯或者表達錯誤,又會點處理?
7. 係比賽期間live 係樂意見到, 但係係live 船上call tricks 會影響到judge 既判決。外國live call tricks 以我所知係係岸上call , 唔係船度call , 當選後可以就呢樣野去進行討論?
多謝你地花時間回答
點解無人答我既問題架?
係咪又揀人黎答?
而家都唔答,黎梗睇黎啲問題都係石沉大海
I’ll type in English and if you’re free to grab me for more chats in Cantonese if there’s need to ¨̮
1. 請問點樣推廣wakesurf大眾化令多D人可以參與呢個活動?
Will – Share is loving
a) My way of doing this is I start with posting on ig my 心得 on how to do a trick, that helped a number of people. – we can use the social media of HKWSA to post some wakesurf instruction or video posted by some expert riders in HK.
b) I shot some fun videos with some friends before about some mini-comp (surf game for fun), and we can do this also on social on media, low / no cost option.
c) I joined namiwakesurf before and it’s just boat fee, i.e. no extra coaching fee and during the workshop i learnt a lot. I think very nicely HKWSA could do this also by inviting good riders to participate. And Charles Wan mentioned in other posts about safety promotions, we can ensure we cover that in the workshop also.
d) People asked about beginner categories in the last wakesurf comp., and we should host more of this category so people get a feel of how is it like to compete & gain experience & exposure.
e) I let other people to contribute their inputs ¨̮
2. 就以上有人提及如果就一次比賽攞第一名就可以成為香港代表隊既話,係點樣去平衡長遠既發展?跟據之前有提過一年想搞3-4個比賽,咁比賽會係預計係咩月份進行?如果當一年有4個比賽,每3個月進行一次比賽,係咪就每3個月轉一次香港代表隊?
Will – I think all are ideas and you’re right, if the team change too frequently it may do more harm than good. I think therefore any change we do we need to ensure we think through and articulate the scenarios. But also I think we would agree also that we may not want someone to win for 2-3 times consecutively and won’t be able to be in HK Team, so it’s a balance we should strike.
Ideally, more comps are always better (if we have such demand), but also have to consider the cost of doing so & affordability; if there are 3-4 comps or make it more extreme? 1 comp per month, there’s no need for the 第一名’s special handling option to be in place.
So all in all, I don’t want to blindly push 1 thing through, but rather push whatever is making sense and realistic / pragmatic. Because I think if HKWSA could have afforded to do 3-4 comps per year, they could have done it already… .
3. 請問做judge 係靠經驗定係以IWWF official judge 為準?邊樣你覺得可以服眾?同埋會否定期review judge 既資格?
Will – It’s both. But more importantly, to stick with the game rule, if we do IWWF comp, that needs to be judged by certified IWWF judge unless there is special case approved by all riders (participants of the comp), to remain fair.
4. 有意見先會有進步,黎梗會唔會定立一個公眾平台比大家發表意見同討論,而就回覆時間會否有一個基準? 我見之前係IG 一唔立即回覆就被無限TAG
Will – Definitely this is needed and will implement if I am elected. And if you’re interested, pls voice out to me personally!
5. 身為香港代表隊有出國比賽代表香港資格,但無去到,咁仲係咪可以叫做香港代表隊,明白唔係次次都會去到,會否定立幾多次唔去就唔再係香港代表隊
Will – I think yes needs to, you’re right. But also if there’s specific reason which is justifiable like pregnancy / concern about diseases / injury, that’s always okay to be exempted.
Just like at work you also get 產假 ish.
6. 就問責問題,如果委員有做錯或者表達錯誤,又會點處理?
Will – apologise and promise to correct things, that’s something I’ve also done on other posts under this board. We are all human and commit mistakes, the main thing is you acknowledge, apologise to impacted parties, and improve / correct yourself.
7. 係比賽期間live 係樂意見到, 但係係live 船上call tricks 會影響到judge 既判決。外國live call tricks 以我所知係係岸上call , 唔係船度call , 當選後可以就呢樣野去進行討論?
Will – Definitely this will be discussed. and i think i can share my experience, actually due to tech issue HKWSA this time did not manage to arrange on land LIVE MC. So putting someone on boat to do it instead, the objective is to ensure still people could see it with min. / if not no impact to the judging team.
Actually, if you ever got on the boat, you barely hear what I said as the boat’s noise is too loud + I actually used a v low voice to do commentary. (if you ask 1 of the judges – Helen, she can prove it)
But either way – comment taken, will reflect on better if we are elected or I will be MC still for next time.
correction –
c) I joined namiwakesurf WORKSHOP before and it’s just boat fee, i.e. no extra coaching fee and during the workshop i learnt a lot. I think very nicely HKWSA could do this also by inviting good riders to participate. And Charles Wan mentioned in other posts about safety promotions, we can ensure we cover that in the workshop also.
To: Cindy
Fr: David
謝謝Cindy 你的問題。我想補充問題3。
裁判的問題是我一直以來都很關注的,尤其是因為平分是比較主觀。對我來說,要成為一名優秀的裁判,至少有 5 個因素。
1) 高水平的現任或退役運動員。
這些人曾經做過那些動作。他們知道技巧的難易程度,並且可以分辨出相似動作之間的小差異。
2) 判斷經驗。
你可能是一個很好的運動員,但判斷也需要練習。做判斷的經驗越多越好。
3) 公平公正。
避免在比賽中,評審朋友和家人,以防止利益衝突。
4) 通過了該組織的裁判課程。
由於每個組織都有自己的評分系統,因此裁判必須通過該組織的裁判課程才能知道怎樣評分。
5) Skim裁判應該只是評skim style 的比賽。同樣,surf style 的裁判應該只評surf style 的比賽。
其他改進建議。
目前,裁判課程主要是教你如何計算分數。它不需要你知道太多不同的花式是什麼。我建議每一個裁判也要考試,讓他們知道每個花式是什麼。
最後,我建議使用片段來輔助判斷。這是因為在比賽過程中一切都發生得很快,裁判可能會錯過一個些東西。如果他們可以查看片段以防有任何疑問。
Thank you Cindy for your question. I would like to add my answer to question 3.
The judging issue is something I have always been concerned about, especially because it can be subjective. To me there are at least 5 elements to be a good judge.
1) A high level and respectable rider, current or retired.
These people have been there and done that before. They know how hard or easy a trick is and they can tell the smallest difference between similar looking tricks.
2) Experience in judging.
You may be a good rider, but judging also need practicing. The more experience you are in judging the better.
3) Fair and unbiased.
Avoid judging your friends and family in a competition to prevent conflict of interests.
4) Passed that organisation’s judging course.
Since each organisation has their own scoring system, a judge must pass that judging course in order to know that.
5) A skim style judge should only judge skim style competitions. Similarly, a surf style judge should only judge surf style competitions.
Other suggestions for improvements.
As of now, judging courses mainly teach you how to calculate the scores. It does not require you to know the what the different tricks are. I would suggest that people to do a test on all different trick names and what they actually are.
Finally, I would suggest the use of videos to aid judging. This is because everything happens so fast during a competition run, a judge may miss a trick or a grab. It would be helpful if they can review videos footage in case of any doubts.
Thanks David
2. 就以上有人提及如果就一次比賽攞第一名就可以成為香港代表隊既話,係點樣去平衡長遠既發展?跟據之前有提過一年想搞3-4個比賽,咁比賽會係預計係咩月份進行?如果當一年有4個比賽,每3個月進行一次比賽,係咪就每3個月轉一次香港代表隊?
Will – I think all are ideas and you’re right, if the team change too frequently it may do more harm than good. I think therefore any change we do we need to ensure we think through and articulate the scenarios. But also I think we would agree also that we may not want someone to win for 2-3 times consecutively and won’t be able to be in HK Team, so it’s a balance we should strike.
Ideally, more comps are always better (if we have such demand), but also have to consider the cost of doing so & affordability; if there are 3-4 comps or make it more extreme? 1 comp per month, there’s no need for the 第一名’s special handling option to be in place.
So all in all, I don’t want to blindly push 1 thing through, but rather push whatever is making sense and realistic / pragmatic. Because I think if HKWSA could have afforded to do 3-4 comps per year, they could have done it already… .
Cindy Reply : 我絕對贊成可以比有能者成為香港代表隊, 但如果唔可能一年有3-4 次比賽, 又點樣可以成為香港代表隊? 幾耐轉一次會比較好??
3. 請問做judge 係靠經驗定係以IWWF official judge 為準?邊樣你覺得可以服眾?同埋會否定期review judge 既資格?
Will – It’s both. But more importantly, to stick with the game rule, if we do IWWF comp, that needs to be judged by certified IWWF judge unless there is special case approved by all riders (participants of the comp), to remain fair.
Cindy Reply : what the meaning of special case?? 同埋點係由個RIDERS 去決定, 而唔係由個CHIEF JUDGE去決定呢??
4. 有意見先會有進步,黎梗會唔會定立一個公眾平台比大家發表意見同討論,而就回覆時間會否有一個基準? 我見之前係IG 一唔立即回覆就被無限TAG
Will – Definitely this is needed and will implement if I am elected. And if you’re interested, pls voice out to me personally!
Cindy Reply : 係呢度討論會比較好, 較為公平公開. 回覆時間會否有一個基準? 認真, 我見之前係IG 一唔立即回覆就被無限TAG. 仲要加TAG 多3個人
5. 身為香港代表隊有出國比賽代表香港資格,但無去到,咁仲係咪可以叫做香港代表隊,明白唔係次次都會去到,會否定立幾多次唔去就唔再係香港代表隊
Will – I think yes needs to, you’re right. But also if there’s specific reason which is justifiable like pregnancy / concern about diseases / injury, that’s always okay to be exempted.
Just like at work you also get 產假 ish.
Cindy Reply : 你好似冇答到我個問題…如果次次都係特別原因去唔到. 咁會唔會取消资格呢? 同埋呢件事同產假冇關喎
6. 就問責問題,如果委員有做錯或者表達錯誤,又會點處理?
Will – apologise and promise to correct things, that’s something I’ve also done on other posts under this board. We are all human and commit mistakes, the main thing is you acknowledge, apologise to impacted parties, and improve / correct yourself.
7. 係比賽期間live 係樂意見到, 但係係live 船上call tricks 會影響到judge 既判決。外國live call tricks 以我所知係係岸上call , 唔係船度call , 當選後可以就呢樣野去進行討論?
Will – Definitely this will be discussed. and i think i can share my experience, actually due to tech issue HKWSA this time did not manage to arrange on land LIVE MC. So putting someone on boat to do it instead, the objective is to ensure still people could see it with min. / if not no impact to the judging team.
Actually, if you ever got on the boat, you barely hear what I said as the boat’s noise is too loud + I actually used a v low voice to do commentary. (if you ask 1 of the judges – Helen, she can prove it)
But either way – comment taken, will reflect on better if we are elected or I will be MC still for next time.
Cindy Reply : 如果你認為MC 係唔會影響到個JUDGE, 相信係你個人感受, HK tech issue 做唔到又點解呢? 錢定人手問題?
Reply David :
謝謝Cindy 你的問題。我想補充問題3。
裁判的問題是我一直以來都很關注的,尤其是因為平分是比較主觀。對我來說,要成為一名優秀的裁判,至少有 5 個因素。
1) 高水平的現任或退役運動員。
這些人曾經做過那些動作。他們知道技巧的難易程度,並且可以分辨出相似動作之間的小差異。
Cindy Reply : 咁如果呢個TRICKS 冇一個香港運動員做過呢?
2) 判斷經驗。
你可能是一個很好的運動員,但判斷也需要練習。做判斷的經驗越多越好。
Cindy Reply : agree
3) 公平公正。
避免在比賽中,評審朋友和家人,以防止利益衝突。
Cindy Reply : 朋友又好似難D… 但家人係認同
4) 通過了該組織的裁判課程。
由於每個組織都有自己的評分系統,因此裁判必須通過該組織的裁判課程才能知道怎樣評分。
Cindy Reply : 我等左2年都未有新一年judge course.
5) Skim裁判應該只是評skim style 的比賽。同樣,surf style 的裁判應該只評surf style 的比賽。
Cindy Reply : 如果我地有咁多JUDGE 都係好既
其他改進建議。
目前,裁判課程主要是教你如何計算分數。它不需要你知道太多不同的花式是什麼。我建議每一個裁判也要考試,讓他們知道每個花式是什麼。
Cindy Reply : 而家都有EXAM 架喎
最後,我建議使用片段來輔助判斷。這是因為在比賽過程中一切都發生得很快,裁判可能會錯過一個些東西。如果他們可以查看片段以防有任何疑問。
Cindy Reply : 但高度同揸機都好有影響, 如果有多角度拍攝我係認同
2. 就以上有人提及如果就一次比賽攞第一名就可以成為香港代表隊既話,係點樣去平衡長遠既發展?跟據之前有提過一年想搞3-4個比賽,咁比賽會係預計係咩月份進行?如果當一年有4個比賽,每3個月進行一次比賽,係咪就每3個月轉一次香港代表隊?
Will – I think all are ideas and you’re right, if the team change too frequently it may do more harm than good. I think therefore any change we do we need to ensure we think through and articulate the scenarios. But also I think we would agree also that we may not want someone to win for 2-3 times consecutively and won’t be able to be in HK Team, so it’s a balance we should strike.
Ideally, more comps are always better (if we have such demand), but also have to consider the cost of doing so & affordability; if there are 3-4 comps or make it more extreme? 1 comp per month, there’s no need for the 第一名’s special handling option to be in place.
So all in all, I don’t want to blindly push 1 thing through, but rather push whatever is making sense and realistic / pragmatic. Because I think if HKWSA could have afforded to do 3-4 comps per year, they could have done it already… .
Cindy Reply : 我絕對贊成可以比有能者成為香港代表隊, 但如果唔可能一年有3-4 次比賽, 又點樣可以成為香港代表隊? 幾耐轉一次會比較好??
3. 請問做judge 係靠經驗定係以IWWF official judge 為準?邊樣你覺得可以服眾?同埋會否定期review judge 既資格?
Will – It’s both. But more importantly, to stick with the game rule, if we do IWWF comp, that needs to be judged by certified IWWF judge unless there is special case approved by all riders (participants of the comp), to remain fair.
Cindy Reply : what the meaning of special case?? 同埋點係由個RIDERS 去決定, 而唔係由個CHIEF JUDGE去決定呢??
4. 有意見先會有進步,黎梗會唔會定立一個公眾平台比大家發表意見同討論,而就回覆時間會否有一個基準? 我見之前係IG 一唔立即回覆就被無限TAG
Will – Definitely this is needed and will implement if I am elected. And if you’re interested, pls voice out to me personally!
Cindy Reply : 係呢度討論會比較好, 較為公平公開. 回覆時間會否有一個基準? 認真, 我見之前係IG 一唔立即回覆就被無限TAG. 仲要加TAG 多3個人
5. 身為香港代表隊有出國比賽代表香港資格,但無去到,咁仲係咪可以叫做香港代表隊,明白唔係次次都會去到,會否定立幾多次唔去就唔再係香港代表隊
Will – I think yes needs to, you’re right. But also if there’s specific reason which is justifiable like pregnancy / concern about diseases / injury, that’s always okay to be exempted.
Just like at work you also get 產假 ish.
Cindy Reply : 你好似冇答到我個問題…如果次次都係特別原因去唔到. 咁會唔會取消资格呢? 同埋呢件事同產假冇關喎
6. 就問責問題,如果委員有做錯或者表達錯誤,又會點處理?
Will – apologise and promise to correct things, that’s something I’ve also done on other posts under this board. We are all human and commit mistakes, the main thing is you acknowledge, apologise to impacted parties, and improve / correct yourself.
7. 係比賽期間live 係樂意見到, 但係係live 船上call tricks 會影響到judge 既判決。外國live call tricks 以我所知係係岸上call , 唔係船度call , 當選後可以就呢樣野去進行討論?
Will – Definitely this will be discussed. and i think i can share my experience, actually due to tech issue HKWSA this time did not manage to arrange on land LIVE MC. So putting someone on boat to do it instead, the objective is to ensure still people could see it with min. / if not no impact to the judging team.
Actually, if you ever got on the boat, you barely hear what I said as the boat’s noise is too loud + I actually used a v low voice to do commentary. (if you ask 1 of the judges – Helen, she can prove it)
But either way – comment taken, will reflect on better if we are elected or I will be MC still for next time.
Cindy Reply : 如果你認為MC 係唔會影響到個JUDGE, 相信係你個人感受, HK tech issue 做唔到又點解呢? 錢定人手問題?
Victor Lee 你好,
謝謝你的問題。如果我是HKWSA的委員會成員。首先,我會聯繫該人,了解評論的背後原因,看看有什麼解決辦法。至於指責或聲稱一個協會是最好還是最壞,是取決於個人意見。這本身並不違反任何規則或法律。就像如果有人告訴我我是世界上最差的人,我也不能報警逮捕那個人。
David
Dear Victor Lee,
Thank you for your question. If I were the committee member of HKWSA. First I would reach out to the person to understand the reason behind the comment. What made the person so upset and see what solution can be made. As for accusing or calling an association the best or the worst is subject to personal opinion. By itself it is not violating any rules or laws. Just like if someone told me that I was the worst person in the world, I cannot call the police to arrest that person.
Yours sincerely,
David
Hi David.
I am not asking 規則或法律, i am talking about 德行問題, 如果有一位運動員有出眾技術, 但德行有問題, 唔尊重會, 甚至唔尊重比賽, 你有信心可以亡讓他/她代表香港出賽嗎?
又或者你認為可以讓他/她成為委員? 你願意相信他/她是真心為滑水運動出力?
Victor
To: Victor
Fr: David
謝謝Victor 你的問題。
我認為一個沒有犯會規的人當然可以代表香港比賽或成為委員。
如果一個人犯了會規,是需要得到應有的懲罰。受了懲罰後,亦可以代表香港比賽或成為委員。
至於一個人是否真心為滑水運動出力是需要時間去證明。例如,有沒有義務地去幫滑水總會舉辦不同活動等等。
最後,祝大家中秋節快樂,身體健康,團團圓圓。
To all,
Sounds like everyone is only concerned about how to become HK Team and how to kick out the members of the team.
Can the new EC and the Chairman tell us what is HKWSA? What is the Association’s mission, motto and objective?
To: Charles
Fr: David
Thank you Charles for you good question. I believe you meant to ask all candidates who are running for CE and Waksurf chairman.
HKWSA’s mission is:
“To increase the awareness of, and encourage the greater participation in towed water sports in Hong Kong. In particular the sports of waterskiing, wakeboarding and their derivatives.”
HKWSA’s objectives are:
* To promote the sports of waterskiing & wakeboarding in Hong Kong.
* To provide equipment and training facilities for all levels of waterskiing & wakeboarding.
* To promote competitive waterskiing & wakeboarding.
* To train and develop skiers from elementary to national and international level.
* To represent Hong Kong in regional and international events.
My suggestion is that HKWSA’s mission and objectives should be updated. Explicitly include wakesurfing to reflect the current situation where a large and growing amount of the members are wakesurfers and the fact that HKWSA has been hosting and promoting waksurfing since 2017.
To all – 我想suggest如果你地見到討論入面有good points 可唔可以比個 “like”. 因為我地其中一個入面去HWKSA都想take the discussions as reference 拎一D好既意見去再build on.
我suggest既原因係因為上面好亂. 睇上去有好多討論好似攻防戰 rather than constructively 討論. 我唔知係咪style 問題 but if you think anything is good / worth to further takeaway, you could do something like below, e.g.
”
Boy boy:
我提問咗3條簡單問題?而當事人沒有回覆我提問,其實只要當事人回覆我,當日接受頒獎時實在太興奮,令自己手足無措突然做出一些可能令在場人士覺得不雅動作深感抱憾,在這向當日頒獎嘉賓及在場觀禮人士作出道歉我會接受我相信其他人都會接受,始終都係年輕都會犯錯不自知,我哋做前輩都會給予機會及有責任多加提點。
WIlliam: 呢個你講得好好??
”
”
Vincent: 我同意Chow 的觀點,當加入了主觀決定時,很容易讓公眾覺得不公平。所以要特別小心,我試下rephrase Chow的問題吧.
William: Definitely, so the special case consideration has to also be specially designed, based on my proposal the special approval only applies to the champion winner who does not manage to get in via the point accumulation system. This is 1 more objective criteria as I said above on top of the current special case handling which is to be MORE 主觀. We can consider to keep both however given this serves different senarios, i.e. 1 for someone who took part in the comp; another is simply special handling which can target anyone.
”
Seriously 依個discussion board 可以係好珍貴既 resources / references for not only future / but current HKWSA committees. 大家不妨再比多D認同/support to those who gave good points (don’t mean to ask you to like any of my feedbacks at all).
I will try to free-up time to answer not answered questions, really I am trying, wait for me to come back later today thanks.
噤請問你有冇做到你所講嘅嘢就提出事件似乎係同不雅動作有關, 根據你所講你根本不在場, 你作為港隊成員又係(後)選委員,會唔會跟你隊友解釋,未查明係唔係性騷擾就出黎叫人道歉。
“但作為一位(後)選女委員及女運動員 若然真的有性騷擾的嫌疑,我當然覺得要秉公辦理,查明清楚一定需要了解事情嘅始末,例如查明點解該名女士頒獎時群眾會作出叫囂,誰先作出叫囂,當事人嘅感受及反應,以及其他現埸大眾對事件的睇法……”
其實你同隊友帶政治有關的圖案上國際頒獎台,有冇諗過大眾的睇法呢?我知你是問心無愧。
To: Jan
Chau 先生
首先,其他人出post我完全唔會知道其他人post些什麼,我控制唔到其他人或所有其他隊友發聲,我只是一位你所講嘅 (後)選委員,在這有人發問,我是就問題去討論解答。
如我當選,我一定會了解清楚及徹查清楚的。亦在這想你通知當事人,真的感到性騷擾,不要等請立即報警。
另外,之前已經答過,如這張貼紙硬要與政治拉上關係,我十分樂意撕下的。不過為什麼你硬要經常將政治與運動扯上關係呢?這個好像是閣下的問題。
仲有,可能你一早起身還在迷糊中,請你睇清楚有冇人回覆你問題先再出post….多謝~
最後…中秋節快樂,依幾日回覆訊息會比較慢。